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Tuesday, July 24, 2007

Witness contradicting love: impossible

On to another scenario of the Christian witness, here is a lighter example of bad Christian witness. Tough language is not a problem. Love can be as tough as it has to be, since it must have truth at its side. But I'm talking about judging others without knowing them; preventing them from speaking from the heart (via commenting rules) because one does not care about what is in their heart; perhaps because one is only concerned about being right, and so no one is allowed to propose the possibility to the contrary. And there is a double standard imposed where opposing views must follow certain rules, which the blogger (and those who agree with his position) are excempt from, such as not treating the other parties like idiots.

The blogger is Rand, and the topic is the idolatry preached and practice in the Catholic faith. This is a valid concern because we do have icons and statues, and there are many who go to extremes when venerating the saints and attaching extreme significance to consecrated physical objects. My comments are in blue.


Many people don't understand the objection to the use of images. However, consider what we would think of someone who doted over a photograph of their dead spouse to the point that they saw in that photo a replacement of the person who was at one time flesh and blood. They might put the photo in a frame surrounded by candles and the like. Perhaps they might even speak to the photograph. We would most likely consider the person a bit sad, if not crazy, no?

Of course, I don't think that the commandment forbids the use of all "carved" images that represent "things". There would be no furniture, after all!
Franklin B | Email | Homepage | 07.16.07 - 11:29 pm | #

"but the Lord will judge all in righteousness and truth. Repent and believe on the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ."

I will let the Lord Jesus Christ judge me and not you, Rand.

Dennis | Email | Homepage | 07.20.07 - 6:58 pm | #
He will judge- and those who serve a corrupt false "church" and bow to a living idol from the Vatican City will be judged for it. Salvation is not found in Romanism, it is found solely in Christ. Period.
pregador27 | Email | Homepage | 07.20.07 - 8:41 pm | #

Neither you nor Rand are the judge. It is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Please let Him do the judging as it's not our place.

Just because you think it's idolatry does not make it so. Jesus Christ is the one who makes that call and for us to do the thinking for Him is prideful.
Dennis | Email | Homepage | 07.20.07 - 9:08 pm | #
Dennis, do you want to go and misquote Matthew 7 while you're at it? You speak from ignorance. We are taught to judge by God's Word. Read your Bible, or if you need one I can send you one. Skip the Apocyphra- it's not really Scripture.
pregador27 | Email | Homepage | 07.20.07 - 9:47 pm | #

You would do far better heeding to Pregador and my "judging", than to continue rejecting the plain teachings of Scripture. Don't worry, I'm all to aware that the final, and most meaningful judgment is to come, Dennis.

It's just hard to watch someone obstinately claim that he is alright, when he is, quite literally, doomed.

Repent and believe on the Gospel,
Rand | Email | Homepage | 07.21.07 - 12:02 am | #
Hi Rand!

The nature of idolatry goes beyond talking to, asking favors of, or greeting (feast days of martyrdom) the object of those icons and statues.

The comment rules won't allow me to say more. Please let me only ask that you please not treat Catholics like idiots who can't read the Bible. If we believe things in a way that seems incomprehensible, please grant the possibility that it simply requires more thought.

Jeff Tan | Email | Homepage | 07.21.07 - 11:30 am | #
"The nature of idolatry goes beyond talking to, asking favors of, or greeting (feast days of martyrdom) the object of those icons and statues."

A further application of Jeff's rationale:

The nature of immorality goes beyond thinking sexual thoughts, looking at pornography, or even some types of petting.

Or how about this:

The nature of lying goes beyond telling half-truths, little white lies, or not being forth coming toward authority.

I don't think I need to give any more examples. Jeff, please let me only ask that you please not treat ME like an idiot who doesn't understand Romanism and its disobedience to the Bible. If I believe things that seems incomprehensible, please grant the possibility that it simply requires the Second Birth, life in Christ Jesus.

Repent and believe on the Gospel,
Rand | Email | Homepage | 07.21.07 - 12:17 pm | #
Well.. given the commenting rules, I can't reply to this in substance..

I have repented of my sins, Rand, and do believe in the Gospel, and I have been reborn in Christ Jesus.

And I do not think you are an idiot, so you need not get hot under the collar. It doesn't make one an idiot to have misunderstood something. And that remains my position: that you misunderstand both the Catholic position and the Scriptural witness concerning idolatry. But you are not an idiot. I would only ask that you not dismiss all Catholics as idiots and intentional liars.
Jeff Tan | Email | Homepage | 07.22.07 - 11:03 pm | #

Poor Jeff, there is nothing you can reply that will make your position any less hypocritical and false.

You most certainly have NOT repented of anything, and definitely are NOT born-again. A person who is alive in Christ doesn't keep up idolatry in his/her life. You claim to be in Christ, but your words and actions make it clear that you are of the devil. The fruit is bad, the tree is bad (Matthew 7:17).

I know your position Jeff; and it is untenable. I know Romanism both in theory and in practice. It has been part of my life, and to a certain extent, it is still in my life (by contact with my family). You, as a Romanist, are an idolator and a liar. As the Scriptures put it: you were deceived and now are a deceiver. (2 Timothy 3:13)

Repent and believe on the Gospel of Jesus, not on the falsehoods invented by the papacy.
Rand | Email | Homepage | 07.22.07 - 11:28 pm | #
Well.. once again I can say nothing given your iron-clad commenting rules. I cannot quote Scripture and I cannot explain my position -- even as you treat me like an idiot and label me evil.

I do wish, however, that you would prayerfully examine your own attitude and behavior as well. Do they truly reflect Christ's regeneration? Are you speaking in love or triumphalism and hatred?

Are you acting as a person who is alive in Christ?

Peace be with you.
Jeff Tan | Email | Homepage | 07.23.07 - 10:35 am | #

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