tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post112849764170982004..comments2024-01-31T09:32:52.132+11:00Comments on One Bread, One Body: Confessional ProtestantismJeff Tanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10766263101941796485noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1129050583546483332005-10-12T03:09:00.000+10:002005-10-12T03:09:00.000+10:00'We receive all these books and these only as holy...'We receive all these books and these only as holy and canonical, for the regulating, founding, and establishing of our faith.'<BR/><BR/>I think the contention was that precise identification of "these books" is itself not in Scripture (they are not listed) so they are extra-Biblical and must appeal to an external authority.<BR/><BR/>'because the Holy Spirit testifies in our hearts that they are Jeff Tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10766263101941796485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128915332932541322005-10-10T13:35:00.000+10:002005-10-10T13:35:00.000+10:00Firstly to Venerable,Peace be with you...Thanks fo...Firstly to Venerable,<BR/>Peace be with you...<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your prayers, I will be praying for you too, that you might find Scripture and Christ sufficient. You do not have to add anything. No tradition and no self righteous works. I respect your faithfulness to your church, I was a Zealot RC too and I managed to convert back fundamentalist baptist and methodist friends of mine to Rome .LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128786415899999592005-10-09T01:46:00.000+10:002005-10-09T01:46:00.000+10:00Actually, the logic is quite linear and chronologi...Actually, the logic is quite linear and chronological. It's probably a matter of talking past each other though.<BR/><BR/>To Catholics and Orthodox, the authoritative nature of the canon of Scripture, by which we know which books and epistles are inerrant and God-breathed, comes from the fact that the Church did indeed authorize that canon back in the councils of Hippo and Carthage. True, it Jeff Tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10766263101941796485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128781741200594562005-10-09T00:29:00.000+10:002005-10-09T00:29:00.000+10:00Just one last comment Jeff for lp cruz. Sorry abou...Just one last comment Jeff for lp cruz. Sorry about the length.<BR/><BR/>Imagine if you heard this:<BR/><BR/>"And Jesus said: Here take this Bible and go forth and interpret it according to your own reading of it, and when you can't agree split off and establish another church and keep doing this so that by the year 2005 there will be over 30,000 such separate churches each claiming that their Venerable Aussiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683169420503054927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128755541770227842005-10-08T17:12:00.000+10:002005-10-08T17:12:00.000+10:00Venerable,Protestants went back to the time before...Venerable,<BR/><BR/>Protestants went back to the time before the papacy arose. They retained tradition that can only be substantiated from Scripture so in this sense Protestants are catholic although NOT ROMAN. Catholic means - "universal". It does not mean that when the word catholic is mentioned in the apostle creed when a Protestant recites it, he means he believes in the Roman Catholic LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128751950270607102005-10-08T16:12:00.000+10:002005-10-08T16:12:00.000+10:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128675422019789772005-10-07T18:57:00.000+10:002005-10-07T18:57:00.000+10:00In other words, to be a Protestant means to acknow...In other words, to be a Protestant means to acknowledge the authority of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, ie the Catholic Church.<BR/><BR/>I just mentioned this to my teenage son while dropping him off to a friend's house, and he thought about it for a while, and then the penny suddenly dropped and he said "WOW! Of course! It's so obvious!"Venerable Aussiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683169420503054927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128674001951699842005-10-07T18:33:00.000+10:002005-10-07T18:33:00.000+10:00These are great comments guys. Very illuminating a...These are great comments guys. Very illuminating and very respectful.<BR/><BR/>It's a bit of an irony though that lp cruz actually believes in - although to acknowledge it would be anathema for a Protestant - an infallible exercise of Magisterial authority. Why? Because it was this same Magisterium which decided - without ANY REQUEST FROM JESUS - that there (a) needed to be written scriptures, Venerable Aussiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683169420503054927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128584613383890612005-10-06T17:43:00.000+10:002005-10-06T17:43:00.000+10:00Jeff,I am sad it appears you did not read my blog....Jeff,<BR/><BR/>I am sad it appears you did not read my blog. Things could have been a lot clearer.<BR/><BR/>Here is what RCC Catechism says...<BR/>point 2051 <BR/>"The infallibility of the Magisterium of the Pastors extends to all the elements of doctrine, including moral doctrine, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, expounded, or observed"<BR/>.<BR/><BR/>By the factLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128577231435116692005-10-06T15:40:00.000+10:002005-10-06T15:40:00.000+10:00'you believe that the church is infallible'No, the...'you believe that the church is infallible'<BR/><BR/>No, the church is not infallible. It is the papacy that exercises papal infallibility when making a universal teaching on faith and morals (a very strict limitation) and the ordinary Magisterium that exercises a different sort of infallibility. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm" REL="nofollow">Infallibility</A> is Jeff Tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10766263101941796485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128572504073986942005-10-06T14:21:00.000+10:002005-10-06T14:21:00.000+10:00Jeff,Have you read my blog on similarity? I hope y...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>Have you read my blog on similarity? I hope you do.<BR/><BR/>My point is that this is argument by authority. You simply believe the claim between two claims. As a protestant, I also believe in tradition we just differ. I believe in the tradition that scripture is infallible, you believe that the church is infallible.<BR/><BR/>At least for Protestants, we can go back to scripture LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128569018241759492005-10-06T13:23:00.000+10:002005-10-06T13:23:00.000+10:00He he.. nice try.. but there's a diference between...He he.. nice try.. but there's a diference between the Catholic Church and the ones you've mentioned: there's a valid (at worst arguably feasible) basis for the teaching authority the Church Magisterium claims. Not only is this basis valid (at worst arguably feasible) from history and Tradition, that also holds true from a Scriptural perspective. From the institution of the Church from the Jeff Tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10766263101941796485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128510669282085272005-10-05T21:11:00.000+10:002005-10-05T21:11:00.000+10:00Jeff,I do not know if the layers signify anything....Jeff,<BR/><BR/>I do not know if the layers signify anything. It may be a good description.<BR/><BR/>In my blog I found it strange that the RCC has something in common with LDS in terms of authority and claims to church infallibility.<BR/><BR/>For the LDS it is like this <BR/>Angelic Revelation to J Smith> Book of Mormons > Mormon Prophets> LDS Member.<BR/><BR/>For Budhist it will be like this<BR/LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10759573.post-1128510455459022622005-10-05T21:07:00.000+10:002005-10-05T21:07:00.000+10:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.com